Credit: UNC Charlotte / Edit by Liam McGuire
By Drew Lerner on

On the latest episode of the Pablo Torre Finds Out podcast, Pablo Torre interviewed Mother Jones reporter Madison Pauly about a story she had written on former University of Kentucky swimmer turned conservative media star Riley Gaines.

Gaines rose to prominence several years ago after competing against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas in the NCAA Women’s Swimming Championships. Gaines and Thomas tied for fifth place in the 200m freestyle event.

Thomas’s participation in the event became a national news story, particularly in conservative corners of the media, and Gaines made frequent media appearances to share her perspective that Thomas should not have been allowed to participate in the event.

As Torre documents in his podcast, Gaines’ appearances became more extreme with time. First, the Kentucky swimmer simply made the case that Thomas and other transgender athletes should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports. Later, Gaines suggested that Thomas’s mere presence in the locker room should equate to voyeurism or a form of sexual assault, despite sourcing that suggests Thomas remained covered while in the locker room at the NCAA Championships in question.

At the end of his podcast, Torre revealed that former University of Kentucky swimming coach Lars Jorgensen, who coached Gaines, has been credibly accused of sexual assault against her teammates. In doing so, Torre suggests that Gaines’s punched-up retelling of the Thomas story, which sources inside the locker room have refuted, undermines credible accusations of sexual assault, like those made by her former teammates against her former coach. Torre also connects Gaines’s newer version of events to her recent financial successes.

Since the swim meet in question, Gaines has become a well-known conservative influencer. She’s a contributor to the right-wing sports and culture website OutKick, which is owned by Fox Corporation, and she also does various paid speaking engagements, including for Turning Point USA, the organization founded by the slain right-wing activist Charlie Kirk.

Torre’s conclusion that Gaines has essentially turned to outlandish, false rhetoric for her own financial gain did not sit well with OutKick founder Clay Travis, who called the episode of Torre’s podcast “embarrassing.”

“This is embarrassing, Pablo. Your ‘big investigation’ uncovered that Riley Gaines is paid to share her story and that being forced to compete against a man in an NCAA swimming championship changed her perspective on trans issues,” Travis wrote on X.

Torre responded, saying Travis failed to address his point that Gaines’s rhetoric could undermine the serious accusations of her teammates.

“You forgot something (re: predators in women’s sports),” Torre wrote. “Here’s what Riley’s former UK teammate and friend told us about their head coach, Lars Jorgensen: ‘It’s hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for 5th when my swim coach is accused of raping my teammates.'”

Travis then responded, showing that Gaines had condemned Jorgensen’s behavior last year, when the accusations became public. He then prompted Torre to answer, “an easy question, should men be allowed to compete in women’s sports?”

Later, Torre responded with more context of his own.

It’s certainly no surprise to see Travis defend one of his own employees so vigorously. And it’s no secret that Torre and Travis occupy opposite ends of the political spectrum. (Torre is a regular contributor on the recently rebranded MS NOW, formerly MSNBC.)

If history repeats itself, this could end in Torre inviting Travis onto his podcast. That’s how the former Around the Horn panelist has addressed prior beefs with Bill Simmons and Mark Cuban. But it wouldn’t be a surprise if Torre found Travis’ stances irreconcilable and thus sees little value in bringing him on the show.

About Drew Lerner

Drew Lerner is a staff writer for Awful Announcing and an aspiring cable subscriber. He previously covered sports media for Sports Media Watch. Future beat writer for the Oasis reunion tour.

View all posts by Drew Lerner