Jemele Hill and Cari Champion dropped quite the podcast episode featuring a 95-minute conversation with ESPN’s $100 million man: Stephen A. Smith.
And it’s only part one.
Smith appeared on the Flagrant and Funny podcast hosted by the two former ESPN stars. Over the last year, Hill and Champion have both traded barbs with Smith through their own platforms.
It all started when Smith unceremoniously replaced Michelle Beadle and Cody Decker in the SiriusXM lineup last summer. Later that fall, Champion posted an Instagram video wondering why he had resisted calling out Beadle for so long when he was eager to call out Black women, such as like Jasmine Crockett, and also bringing up the infamous Ray Rice comments that led to a suspension at ESPN when they shared the First Take set together in 2014. Smith then launched an enormous rant at Champion, saying she should be ashamed for her comments.
Stephen A. then took it a step further by taking credit for Champion getting the First Take role and her greater sports media career. That drew a public rebuke from Jemele Hill, who said it made her cringe when she heard Smith take credit for building the careers of Black women like herself, Champion, Monica McNutt, and others. She called his ego and desire to take credit for himself “unbecoming.”
Finally this week, the trio of Stephen A. Smith, Cari Champion, and Jemele Hill sat down to discuss their differences, including talk about sports, politics, and their media careers. While the entire podcast is definitely worth listening to in its entirety (and surely part two contains more fascinating conversations), here are the highlights from part one.
1) “You never called me”
Jemele Hill and Cari Champion began by clearing the air regarding their public comments about Stephen A. Smith and his public treatment of Black women. Smith doubled down on his belief that his issue with the two hosts was that they did not reach out to him directly regarding their concerns given his long-standing relationships with both of them.
But at the nine-minute mark, Hill brought up her own suspension at ESPN after calling Donald Trump a white supremacist. But Smith didn’t return to Hill what he expected himself of her.
“There were some comments you made to the Washington Post, and this is what Cari says about silence being support,” Hill said. “It’s not that I expected you to be silent, but during that entire time, Stephen A. you never called me, you never reached out, you didn’t say anything. You didn’t say, ‘Hey sis, you good.’ I didn’t have that expectation of you to be honest. So I’m not going to say, ‘Oh, I felt a way.’ I didn’t feel any way. It was all good. But it was very interesting to me that you made these comments in the Washington Post where essentially you sided with the company. All good, that’s how you felt.”
Hill then read the comments back to Smith, where she said Hill was stepping out of her lane by criticizing Trump and what it means to represent the brand of ESPN. Given Stephen A. Smith is building an entirely second career as a political comment, that is the ultimate dose of irony. But while Stephen A. didn’t call her, she shared that now Fox News host Will Cain was someone who did reach out to her behind the scenes.
“For you to take offense, especially when I know that it’s pretty hard for you to follow that rule, it’s like, that’s kind of crazy. Because you never gave me that courtesy, but now you want me to give you that courtesy,” she concluded.
Smith answered back by saying that Hill didn’t talk to her about her situation given that he had his own suspension at ESPN.
2) “Why is it DEFCON every f*cking time?”
The conversation shifted to Joy Reid’s firing at MSNBC where Hill and Champion were critical of Smith for singling her out. It then turned to Champion’s comments about Smith’s energy when it comes to his criticism of Black women. She then told Smith, “We’re asking you to have a heightened level of sensitivity and awareness when discussing Black women.” Hill added, “I would honestly say Black people to some degree.”
Hill turned the conversation to Black athletes, asking Stephen A. how things become so personal so often with prominent Black athletes.
“Ninety percent of the time, you probably say something favorable because that is what it is. But it’s like the 10 percent where you don’t, why is it DEFCON every f*cking time? Looking at you and LeBron and you and Jaylen and you and Draymond and you and Kyrie Irving. What?” she asked.
Smith put the blame back on the athletes themselves, saying, “I’m responding to what they did.” He referenced LeBron James confronting him on the court at a Lakers game. Smith then brought up the “disrespect” that James showed him when going on The Pat McAfee Show.
“He went to Pat McAfee’s show, which comes on after mine, just to disrespect me,” Smith said. “He went on to talk sh*t about me […] because of that, I’m like, cool, this is the way it’s going to be? This is the way it’s going to be.”
Stephen A. Smith admitted his feud with LeBron James has become personal, which sets it apart from his disputes with other NBA stars.
3) “So there’s a capitulation there”
After touching on LeBron James, Jemele Hill, and Cari Champion touched on Smith’s comments on Donald Trump and how his response to the president’s demeaning remarks about his “low IQ” paled in comparison to his comments about themselves and other Black personalities.
“When we are literally fighting for our lives as Black people, it’s going to hit differently when we got this rich man sitting in the office who is literally calling you a low IQ individual. You went on Hannity, you went chill on him as opposed to how you went on me and told me all the things about my Black self,” Champion said.
Smith demured by saying that Champion wasn’t the President of the United States with 77 million people voting for her.
“So there’s a capitulation there,” Hill quipped.
Stephen A. hinted that he may be angling for a podcast appearance and debate with Donald Trump himself and then tried to reason with the hosts regarding his strategy for how he approaches the POTUS. But Hill and Champion were having nothing of it.
“You don’t see how people can see that as you capitulating and/or not going as hard to him as you would with other Black people,” Champion questioned. “Do you see that?”
“I can see that,” Smith responded. “But there’s certain times where you should be concerned about that for your community. And there are certain other times where, wait a minute, you’re the one sitting in the seat and you’re the one who knows, because you’re in it.”
He closed the loop by saying that his strategy got him an invite onto This Week with George Stephanopoulos. Time will tell if Smith is really playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers when it comes to dealing with Trump.
4) “It bothers my spirit”
Jemele Hill and Cari Champion took issue with Stephen A. Smith saying that he was embarrassed for voting for Kamala Harris and the damage that those comments did, especially in light of how Trump 2.0 has turned out for everyone not part of Trump’s desired class of people. That extended to his public back-and-forth with Jasmine Crockett and the fallout of his quarrel with her.
But when it seemed like the two sides came to a general understanding of their political differences and Smith’s support of the Black community and the power of his voice in choosing what to advocate for and how outspoken he is in doing so, Hill brought up the number of controversial right-wing people that he has had as guests and associated with, like his friend Sean Hannity and Fox News.
“When NABJ gives you this thumbs down award, and I understand you and Sean Hannity have been friends for many years. Fox News is the most anti-Black news station I think I’ve ever seen in my life,” Hill said. “You know what they constantly do all the time, fear-mongering. We’re their target practice all day. And I’m like, ‘Why? Why is that the choice?’ And not just them. I watched your conversation with Ben Shapiro, man. I’m just going to say it, f*ck Ben Shapiro. And the reason I say that, when he said that about Trayvon Martin and his consistent comments about him, dead to me… When you are constantly in the company of people who dismiss our humanity, it bothers my spirit. And I’m just wondering why? Just, why?”
Smith’s response was that he wasn’t socializing with the likes of Shapiro and Megyn Kelly. And he called himself a “journalist” (hello, Michael Wilbon) in pursuing what makes them tick and getting them to talk about their views in an open and transparent way.
Smith said that most of his tough conversations behind the scenes come from the left side of the political aisle, even suggesting that Democratic Party operatives could have been behind his famous “thumbs down” from the National Association of Black Journalists.
“I believe, and I was told, there were some people from the Democratic Party who communicated with the NABJ board and convinced them to do that,” Smith said.
That drew laughter from Hill.
“Oh I can tell you some of the things, I’m not saying that particular thing was true. But there’s a reason I have my suspicions because I know what has been done to me over the last year. And I know some people who have been behind it. So I know what I’m talking about in that regard,” he added. “I was also warned by very prominent politicians, it’s a very dirty game. And I got news for you. Contrary to what people believe, when you hear me take a position, it’s usually not the Republicans talking to me. It’s usually members from the Democratic side.”
5) “That sh*t don’t apply to sports”
As part one came to a conclusion, the trio came to a middle ground. Smith summarized his feelings regarding his relationship to the Black community by looking back at all that he’s done over the course of his career and his identity.
“I’m a Black man. I’m going to always be Black first. I was Black from the moment I came out of the womb. That’s me. If you’re telling me that I have to compromise who the hell I am just to appease folks, I can’t do that,” Smith said.
Hill and Champion then complimented Smith on his voice and the power of his work and what made him who he is today. Smith said he took their comments on board, especially as women, saying that he couldn’t fully understand their perspective. But in closing, he wanted to keep the conversation about sports separate from the conversation about politics.
“When you talk about the community and them feeling this way, that sh*t don’t apply to sports,” Smith said. “Politics I’m down for it. I’m down for it. […] You’re willing to acknowledge that plays a significant role in what the Black community is saying. See, Cari, I can’t capitulate to a Jaylen Brown saying something like that about I’m a piece of sh*t, and you’re going over to Spain or Monaco all because I said you can’t say that’s your favorite season. It really, really warrants that? What I’m saying is I have the ability to differentiate.”
It’s a fascinating insight from Stephen A. Smith as he builds dual careers in sports and politics. You can truly see where both sides are coming from in that Smith tries to keep his two worlds apart and has his reasoning behind his comments. But you can also see Cari Champion and Jemele Hill providing the elevated viewpoint that shows how all of Smith’s commentary comes together under his voice.
As part one concluded, the trio exchanged their best compliments towards each other. You have to applaud all three of them for engaging in this conversation publicly as it’s rare that we ever hear such a detailed, open dialogue where individuals can share their concerns and perspectives with one another and you leave with a better understanding of where both sides are coming from. Hopefully part two provides even more insights.
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