Mark Shapiro recalls meeting ‘genius’ Howie Schwab and launching ‘Stump the Schwab’

Howie Schwab was one of the least likely sports TV stars ever, and it was a stroke of random luck that then-ESPN president Mark Shapiro put him on air.

In a recent interview on the How Leaders Lead podcast, Shapiro (currently the president of Endeavor Group Holdings and the president and COO of TKO) recalled how one of the most fortuitous meetings of his career led to the popular and profitable Stump the Schwab on ESPN2.

Schwab, then head of research for the Worldwide Leader, booked a 15-minute coffee meeting with Shapiro about how to improve the company’s stats department. When Shapiro heard him, he immediately started thinking bigger.

“He comes in and he just starts rattling off all these stats, and ‘We should be doing this and we should be doing this, and we should have Next Gen Stats.’ How prescient is that? That’s what all these games are about these days,” Shapiro said.

“And analytics when nobody even knew what analytics was. And he’s going on and on and on, and I just realized, it kind of hit me, this guy, he’s a genius. Like, he’s a savant. He knows every stat I could possibly think of.”

What started as a casual coffee chat between Mark Shapiro and his head researcher became a cult hit on @espn. Now president of @WME Group and @TKOGrp, Shapiro reflects on the power of unexpected ideas—and the conversations that spark them. Never underestimate where your next big… pic.twitter.com/PFoaAWSDBb

— How Leaders Lead (@HowLeadersLead) May 5, 2025

So Shapiro made plans to launch Stump the Schwab, the sports trivia show hosted by Stuart Scott in which contestants tried to outsmart Schwab. It was an unusual fit.

“If you’ve seen him, his face is not the face for television,” Shapiro explained. “I said, ‘We should do a show with you … we’re going to launch a new show.'”

Unlike the marquee TV celebrities like Chris Berman or Peter Gammons who were stars at the network at the time, Schwab (who passed away last year) appealed to viewers because he was more of a regular guy, and whip-smart. Stump the Schwab became a solid hit for ESPN2, and Schwab became a name brand.

All because Shapiro saw his potential.

“It really became a huge cult favorite, and Howie became this recognizable star on the street,” Shapiro said. “You didn’t come to meet with me to pitch a show, but that’s what came out of it.”

The lesson as always: even the smartest media executives never know what will hit or where it will come from.